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diet of red junglefowl
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Tom Condon
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:46 pm    Post subject: diet of red junglefowl Reply with quote

Well, I was hoping some of the diet/nutrition people out there could help me formulate a custom diet for red junglefowl, gallus gallus. I have always fed my birds milled Purina brand game bird feed (maintenance & breeder) with supplements of fruits, vegetables and seeds. I was wondering if anyone could help me develop a diet specific to the species and preferably seasonally specific. I have looked for information regarding to the feeding habits of wild red junglefowl and have only located a few descriptions. Bump and Bohl (1961) examined the crop contents of 37 red junglefowl mostly collected during the 6 month hunting season and found the following plants, animals and miscellaneous items (the number indicates the number of crops in which the item was found, out of the 37 total):

Plants
Triochosanthes cucumerina 6
Rubus sp. 5
Carissa opaca 4
Zizyphus jujube 4
Shorea robusta (Sal tree seeds) 3
Digitaria sp. 3
Stellaria media 2
Oryza sativa (rice) 2
Grass (Panicum & others) 2
Roots 2
Oxalis corniculata 1
Adiantum caudatum 1
Rungia parviflora 1
Solanum sp. 1
Sedge tubers 1

Animals
Hymenoptera (ants) 7
Diptera (leaf miner) 3
Coleoptera (beetles) 6
Pulmonata (snails) 4
Isoptera (termites) 4
Hemiptera (bugs) 3
Diptera (flies) 2
Lepidoptera (moth pupae) 2
Aranae (spiders) 2
Orthoptera (crickets) 1
Diplopoda (millipede) 1


MiscellaneousGrit 8
Clay 1
Sand 1
Feces 2

Collias and Collias (1967) wrote a little about the feeding habits of red junglefowl in the paper “A Field Study of The Red Jungle Fowl in North-Central India” you can find this here… http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Condor/files/issues/v069n04/p0360-p0386.pdf just search the document for “diet.”

This is about all we have that I know of. Beebe (1926) wrote a little about this but I don’t have a copy of this account on hand.

Ok…so the main questions are…
1. What type of foodstuff available here can adequately replace the various components of their diet in the wild?
2. What proportions should these be fed and at what time of year and for what ages?
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Carl
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Details of wild diet are of little interest or use to anyone but field biologists and academics. They reperesent but a snap-shot in time and location. Without detailed nutritional analysis of the components of the diet found in wild birds they offer all but no insight into the nutritional choices in the bird, more, they are an indication of habitat preference/need.
The best starting point by far are the detailed nutritional requirements known for domesticated poultry - protein (but most especially amino-acid composition), fat (down to fatty acid composition), and carbohydrate, plus vitamins and minerals.
You can then formulate a diet from there. Due to the amino-acid requirements any diet must contain animal and/or soy and/or some other pulse protein, or the addition of free amino-acids (not uncommon in formualted feeds where lysine is added to pig and some exotic bird feeds - such as T16 fruit-eater pellets). Fatty acid requirements require a variety of oil seed and/or animal fat additions.
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Tom Condon
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your input Carl. I understand that methods used to determine wild diets (crop analysis & general observations) provide only a small window, or like you said, “snap-shot” into the true diet of the birds. The location and time is very narrow and in this case the sample size was relatively small (n=37). Unfortunately we do not have extensive surveys documented that sampled crop contents of red junglefowl across either time or space.

Quote:
Without detailed nutritional analysis of the components of the diet found in wild birds they offer all but no insight into the nutritional choices in the bird, more, they are an indication of habitat preference/need.


Yes this is logical, and it sounds like a lot of work!

Quote:
The best starting point by far are the detailed nutritional requirements known for domesticated poultry - protein (but most especially amino-acid composition), fat (down to fatty acid composition), and carbohydrate, plus vitamins and minerals. You can then formulate a diet from there.


Because chickens have been so greatly modified from wild red junglefowl I wonder if analysis of nutritional requirements done for the former would come even close to that for wild junglefowl? I suppose analysis done for the smaller, active and somewhat flightier breeds of chickens may come closer, but I just can’t see comparing the requirements of a red junglefowl to that of a barred rock chicken. I understand that the basic elements (protein, fat, vitamins, etc…) would all be there, but how do we make the jump from this to the specifics, proportions, and seasonal variation required in red junglefowl.

I think what I am looking for is a diet based on a combination of science/field studies, known nutritional requirements for similar birds (gallus), and some assumptions or estimations. For example, we know (or at least assume) that the young red junglefowl in north India feed extensively on termites (Odontotermes obesus). This is described below by Collias & Collias (1967):

“Termites are probably a general and an important seasonal food of jungle fowl. Bump and Bohl (1961) found termites in the crops of some of their jungle fowl, and a number of reliable observers told us they had observed jungle fowl eating such food during the termites’ mating flights. The first termite flights appear during the premonsoon showers, and, according to P. H. Chatterji, entomologist of the Forest Research Institute at Dehra Dun, the main flights come in June and July. This is a time when there are many growing jungle fowl chicks in the forest, and termites must comprise an important part of their diet. We were informed by Chatterji that the commonest mound-building termite throughout northern India is Odontotermes obesus, and P. K. Sen-Sarma, also of the Forest Research Institute, identified the termites we collected near the Dholkhand Forest Rest House as belonging to this species (see also Mathur and Sen-Sarma, 1962).”

So I searched (albeit briefly) for any information relating to the nutritional value of termites and didn’t come up with anything. If I could determine a suitable substitute for Odontotermes obesus I am sure that would be great to feed young junglefowl. I searched a little while and found this site on rearing termites for reptiles, birds or other animals - its probably not for everyone but I might try it...well away from the house I might add!

Rearing Termites as Feeder Insects
http://www.chameleonnews.com/year2004/jan2004/termites/termites.html
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Carl
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where are you going to find detailed nutritional requirment analysis for red junglefowl or even small breed chickens? I doubt any exist for either and if they did the differences would be smaller than the experimental error in their determinations.

In actual fact, if you dig hard enough, the differences in requirements between birds in different orders (say chicken compared to a budgie), is not huge and there is such data. You can also search and find data for insect analysis and find that insects are quite similar in analysis too (don't get other invertebrates mixed up with insects - worms are not insects for instance). It is also worthy of note that the broad analysis of fatty acids, amino acids and minerals in a budgie is remarkably similar to that in a chicken, which is broadly similar to that in a crow etc. etc. - liquidised whole budgie is virtually indistinguishable from liquidised whole chicken, is virtually indistinguishable from liquidised crow, etc. etc.

You are making life WAY too complicated - the body needs vitamins, minerals, amino-acids and fatty acids of certain types in certain quantities, and also a certain number of calories. In any reasonable diet all but calories ought to be and generally are, present in excess, usually large excess. Any excess protein and/or fats are burnt along with carbohydrates to provide the calories needed. You have not one chance in 1000000000000000 of ever putting together any diet that accurately reflects the precise nutritional requirement of anything on earth, red junglefowl or anything else, including yourself.
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Resolution
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ellen Dierenfeld, Christine Sheppard and Martin Burnett published a paper on pheasant nutrition. If you were to contact Dr. Direnfeld at the San Antonio Zoo or Dr. Sheppard at the Bronx Zoo and ask nicely, I am certain that they will send you a copy of it. It is also available online if memory serves me correctly. Ellen has worked tirelessly to recreate diets for captive wild animals as the head of the AZA zoo nutrition specialist group. I brought the dietary issues of Gallinates as I thought I knew them, to their attention in 1994. They made some very interesting discoveries based upon source material such as you Tom, have provided here for anyone that actually would like to feed their junglefowl naturally or at least be educated about the fact that junglefowl are in fact, naturally derived wild species.
In the thread on Western Tragopans, Myles made the point that the processed feed is very difficult to locate at the one breeding facility.
As the facility is within the species' breeding range, locating the components of their natural diet will be more convenient than say it might be in downtown Mumbai. That said, a zootritionist will help take the guess work out help freeze frame the major dietary requirements of the species.
I thoroughly disagree with the notion that the status quo provided in the chapters of oft studied backyard ornamental gamebird hobbyist books really do the birds any justice. Their health is effected in the long run.

In Siwa Egypt, it is very difficult if not impossible to locate processed pelleted feed and everyone knows how much i distrust crumbles. Ellen has helped me put diets together using that which is available- that which is grown on our lands. I now grow guppies constantly and feed these guppies as if they were cichlids. On that note, a decent extruded kibble for farmed fish like cichlids is going to be crucial for alot of people in out of the way places and for people that want to strealine what they are doing.
I prefer an avian kibble formulated specifically for terrestrial birds but in Egypt it is not feasible to bring it in. For this reason, I utilize fish feeds made right in the country and grow live food like guppies to ameliorate the diet for my Subtropical collections there. Antioxidant rich fruit like pomegranet and guava grow abundantly there but I find that my junglefowl prefer jujube Ziziphus spinacristi over just about any fruit.

As the Indian Red Jf and all solid heirloom lines of Killian and others are invaluable, I strongly suggest that you feed them in the manner of the Ceylon JF.or Greys- Eliminate soybean meal whenever possible. If you do use it make certain it is extruded and thus more digestible. I don't feed my Ceylons and Greens like reds- but it is more convenient for us to make up subtropical fare for them as we have many deep forest and ecological specilaist species- > I would feed the Red probably more like a Grey- reduce corn whenever possible, and provide whole grains- lots of antioxidant rich fruit during fastes and a decent kibble -no more than five or ten percent during maintenance months- increase during laying and moulting- Soaked or ground dog kibble is preferable over mashes for chicks. Mix it with budgie seed and grit.

Feel free to write me personally if you would like Dr. Sheppard's ppersonal email or Dr. Dierenfeld's


Also- the material that has been brought to my attention via zootrition that synthesizes the arthropod rich diet of subtropical gallinates is the freeze dried krill- which is pretty pricey. Crabmeal is availabe readily in most feed stores and can be mixed right into a decent mix. The chitin is very important as a feed supplement.
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Carl
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The major point that is being missed here is that any determination of dietary requirements can only ever be a snap-shot and in actual fact the bulk of any diet in particular (the source of calories) will/must vary considerably with time.

In a healthy bird, unstressed and neither moulting nor breeding, the protein requirments each day will be X. The requirements for all of the fatty-acids, vitamins and minerals will also be certain reasonably well defined amounts too.
If you had a magic device and measured the absolute dietary requirements for a bird on a certain day, you might get a figure of, just for instance, 12% protein and a total (metabolisable) calorific value for the diet of 2500 calories per kg.
The very next day, the weather changes and it is 15C cooler. The same magic device may now produce figures for an ideal diet of 10% protein and 2500 calories per kg. This is because the bird will eat more to keep warm but its body will require no more protein, so the same absolute amount of protein is eaten while eating more in total. This precise problem means that poultry diets vary across the world and from one method of production to the next - the precise formula of any ration is tuned to the combination of bird and its situation.
With humans, we may eat more if it is cold, but we tend to put a sweater or coat on first - something not open to birds to do.
The same logic applies to vitamins and minerals too - a bird "on idle" requires the same amount every day, but they may be obtained from more or less food in total.
How about if the bird is sitting out a storm, or incubating, or laying or moulting, or is stressed, or has lost some feathers unasociated with moult, or has some mild infection, or is courting or being courted, etc. etc. etc. ?
What any diet is aimed at, or should be aimed at, should be to contain enough of the essential dietary elements (amino-acids, fatty-acids, vitamins and minerals) to cover all eventualities, all of the time. What is done in practice is for all of these to be provided in what is believed to be a comfortable, but not substantial, excess - which, if you spend the time calculating the figures, is precisely what the average healthy human diet provides in the western world.

It is impossible to devise a healthy diet containing only the basic dietary requirements of an average day.

And now you can add in the trully mammoth unknown of digestability of dietary ingredients, for which figures only exist for domesticated stock. And the very best of luck!!
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peterc
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:29 am    Post subject: termites Reply with quote

Tom you can substitute termites with crickets and meal worms Ive purchased from these guys http://www.cricketfactory.com/ and was amazed at the results. You can order any size from them, and they're only $ 10 / thousand. But its well worth it.
I got the information from CA. from an Asian Hornbill Breeder, and My male Trumpeter Hornbill Improved 100 % since I added the Crickets. There was even a difference in his stool. I was advised to Freeze them and add a handful to every feeding. I also caught my cranes constantly pecking away at a Stump I placed in the aviary, and on careful examination.... the stump had termites, and carpenter ants and Larvae they were eating.
check them out
Peter
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Resolution
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all due respect Carl,
Things have greatly improved in the zoo world over the last two decades or so. Perhaps you are aware of our zootrition software?
http://www.stlzoo.org/animals/animalfoodnutritioncenter/zootrition.htm
Managers have often made the flawed assessment that "nothing is known" and this is simply not the case. We are constantly working and if you are interested in learning how much is known and what a large database is available to zoo professionals purchase the software and put it to work.
It is an unfortunate trait we have as men, crossing our arms and turning off our minds. It is even more unfortunate when one generation marginalizes the significance of scientific investigation in the priorities of another. What harm can there possibly be in an intelligent steward investigating source materials? I read your missive as a dismissive suggestion in effect discouraging Tom's attempts to feed a more natural diet- and learn what an optimal diet might be- on the grounds that such research is futile. I hope my assumption is incorrect. That level of confidence that everything is adequate is precisely what has gotten us into the corner that we stand in now.

In the zoo field we manage to feed tarsiers and lemurs, kagus and kiwis.
There are no firm data for the nutritional requirements of these animals but we utilize the data that is available- again see:
http://www.stlzoo.org/animals/animalfoodnutritioncenter/zootrition.htm

We work tirelessly to add new data and include it in our database. This software was designed so that we could help zoos in developing natons, wildlife rehabilitations centres, reintroduction centers all off the map so to speak with tools to answer these important questions. There is one valid opinion that everything worth doing has already been done.
There is another opinion, one to which I prescribe, that believes that solutions begin with an imagination and an open mind.
Intellectual honesty is the first hallmark of courage. Both mindsets utilize it. One mindset is limited by the unknown future. The other mindset is inspired by the same. There are no obstacles only walls and hills and mountains and in old Egypt they had a saying:
" and verily verily, mountains become hills and hills become dwellings and dwellings become rubble, verily verily there is no dust for dwelling destroys dwelling. " The allegory deals with ideas and precepts. Huge ideas are broken down into smaller more manageable increments by time and effect until gradually they become part and parcel of the whole. There is no dust alludes to the fact that comprehension is the last stage of the assimilation of an ideal-

A colleague of mine in the zoo field and I were discussing the crime of the Clarence Killian collection- that is what happened to Killian's collection after his passing- my colleague told me that , the avicultural world is full of pedants who have lost all sense of proportion. Some of them write books. We read the books and accept the authoritative opinions of the authors. It was one of these experts- that were experts solely because they were so damned book smart that wrote off the value of keeping Killian's junglefowl collection intact. We could then discuss what happened with Al Hinkle's collection next after his passing. THe major point being that two really important junglefowl collections were dispersed to the winds and largely by people that can't see any real value in keeping junglefowl. The fact is we owe it to these stewards to keep whatever junglefowl we keep in the best of health over the long term and status quo just doesn't cut it.
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Last edited by Resolution on Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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peterc
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:43 pm    Post subject: diet Reply with quote

I think Carl makes a valid point as he quoted "Details of wild diet are of little interest or use to anyone but field biologists and academics. They represent but a snap-shot in time and location. "
You should know from living in Vermont, the deer's switch to eating evergreen Trees and Bark, in dead winter. Then buds from trees, and pastures opening up to grasses in the spring and summer.
I wont even use imported niger seed because its Sterilized to enter the USA. But I do buy by live niger from http://www.nyger.com/ for my goldfinches and canaries.
It makes a huge difference.
That cricket farm http://www.cricketfactory.com/ sells an average of 65 million crickets a year , and a large portion of that is to Zoos.
I also used frozen chicks every other day to supplement there diet, this fall on my Greater Currasow , and within 3 weeks she was in the nest box with two eggs, and one which hatched.
I think Live protein makes a tremendous difference, and the smallest details are the most important....
and since you love to quote ( I saw this in a movie )
1. 1 nail was put on loosely to a stallion on one of his horseshoes...
2. that nail fell out and caused the horseshoe to fall off...
3. The steed went lame...
4. The rider couldn't make it to his village to warn them that warriors were coming...
5. The village was decimated and the war lost...over 1 nail ...
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Tom Condon
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for all the input such far and thanks for the link Peter. All this discussion now leads me to pose this question…if provided with all the options (i.e. natural type foods or suitable/comparable replacements) shouldn’t the birds select the right quantity and percentages of these foods to meet their needs according to their daily nutritional requirements? Or is this too simple? For example, if the nutritional requirements fluctuate in my red junglefowl due to cold weather and given they are provided with a relatively large variety of food types shouldn’t they be able to determine their individual needs and select how much of food A to consume, food B and so forth? If we have data (in this case it seems we don’t) for the variety of foods they consume seasonally then I could provide the comparable food types during the corresponding seasons. After all we cannot force our birds to consume x amount of Food A and y amount of food B, we can only give options to them. On the other hand will artificial surroundings affect the accuracy of the birds to consume the right foods in the right percentages? (i.e. feeding in plastic containers rather than natural foraging behaviors). Is it conceivable that some birds may favor some food types over others and consume only this? Just some things to ponder… Thanks Tom
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mnord
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I go through about 400 mealworms every other day. I raise them myself and have recently switched from raising them in bran to gamebird chow for their entire life cycle. They are given potatoes and occaisonally fruit for moisture. My question is what do zoos and other people use to gut load their mealworms?
Wasn't natural foraging vs. captive feeding being discussed years ago between Christine Sheppard and Ted Norris? Where did that go? I lost communication right at that point...I'll check the links
Natural foraging can be "somewhat" simulated if the situation is right.

Monte
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Andy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monte,
I used to gut-load my mealworms with Vionate and gamebird starter. Good to see you back!

Andy
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Resolution
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the reasons Ellen and me created ForageCakes, was to meet the foraging component of a captive terrestrial bird's daily activity quotient. A ForageCake enables the birds to forage for treats like nut pieces and dehydrated anti oxidant-rich fruits while obliging the birds to ingest dehdrated vegetable pomace ( water cress, lettuce, spinach, radish, carrot, beet, celery) and DE at the same time. The dietary fiber slows the rate of digestion enabling the bird to utilize more of the nutrients ingested to begin with. The energy used up foraging on the cake is significant in itself. Placing the ForageCake in a non tip bowl on an elevated table or artificial log/rock within the exhibit takes this further. We want to encourage the birds to exercise-exert substantial amounts of energy every single day as they will in nature. On very cold or rainy days when birds are obliged to stay put within cover, in nature, the daily maintenance portion is not provided. The ForageCakes however, are situated about the enclosure and if the birds choose, they will forage on the cakes instead. As in nature, the birds will have expended more energy on those days staying warm and moving to and from the foraging table. They will also have been obliged to work for their food by actively pecking/bill digging the cake.
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Carl
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are some very simple facts being missed here - the basic nutritional requirments may well be know for one or two or a small number of individuals of a certain species subject to certain management and environmental conditions. So what?
The requirements today will not be the same as those of tomorrow, or next week, or next month or the day after tomorrow. The requiremnts of individual A will not be the same as those of individual B, and the requirements of hens will be different to those of males. You have 2 choices - feed the average requirment and hope that you have determined it correctly, in which case the stock ticks along, just - some days defficient, some days with an excess. Or you provide a permanent modest excess so that the requirements will be satisfied on the great majority of days with a small excess on many too.

The idea of feeding a choice and allowing the birds to eat ad lib can work but it is not that simple. The choice has to contain items that are acceptable and that in some combination will yield a suitable diet - sounds simple, but it itsn't guaranteed to be so.
The protein in sunflower is actually a very good match to avian requirements in terms of amino-acid content, and sunflower is also hign in protein. BUT it contains masive amounts of fat. Parrots kept the bad old way, on a diet high in sunflower, tended to be very healthy, but very over-weight. Canola protein is similar to sunflower protein in that the amino-acid content approaches proportions seen in animal protein. But canola is not liked by many birds, so comapartively little is eaten.

Does the nutritional value of your steak, (NOT taste, palatability, texture etc.), depend on if the cow were raised free range in Texas or Ireland, or fed on concentrates or silage and corn? No. Growth rate etc. will vary, but not the basic nutritional value of the finished animal. The same is entirely true of insects and their nutritional value/growth rate on different diets.
As for gut loading - the experiments that show any significant effect are done with reptiles and amphibians that are fed entirely on insect food and with WAY low growth rates and requirements than birds. The gut content of insect food, unless the gut is loaded with a food VERY high in a particular nutrient, counts for less than nothing in birds.
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mnord
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy wrote:
Monte,
I used to gut-load my mealworms with Vionate and gamebird starter. Good to see you back!

Andy


Hey Andy, Great to see your still around and talking. Send me your e-mail address to palawan@hughes.net
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